Hungary’s media watchdog ORTT ordered RTL Klub, the country’s most popular TV network, to shut down for half a day after it broadcast a talk show about pedophiles in its afternoon programming.
The authority also complained that the show, which was aired in March of this year, contained too much obscene language and depicted violence to an undue degree.
According to estimates by Index.hu, the 12-hour shutdown could cost RTL Klub about Ft 100 million in lost revenue. In a press release issued shortly after the ORTT announcement, the TV channel denied any wrongdoing, saying pedophilia should not be a taboo for young audiences as they are the victims of this type of crime and must be told about its existence.
All of these West-imitating, stupid-ass commercial-filled television hate channels, like RTL Klub and TV2, should be shut down indefinitely. ORTT should have shut them down for 12 to 24 hours — AND levy a HUF 100m fine on them as well.
@Anonymous: If they did that, I think you’d have a riot on your hands… never get between a Hungarian and their teevee.
Well Erik as you know only too well, people learn to “like” what they are fed. And how interesting that RTLKlub and TV2 were able to secure landline broadcast rights. So that if you do not have cable, this is all you can watch, other than M1, which is just as bad. In a normal society you would have the 3 state run channels free for everyone.
But you can keep saying that “this is what the people want”, even though numerous scientific studies prove this is not true, that is what tabloid people always do.
Sad. Because television can be an excellent form of entertainment and education.
Right you are, Tünde. Only in Ferenc Kafka’s Hungaria can you have a NATIONAL television station that you cannot pull-in over the air.
Here in Connecticut (USA), I can pull in 24 TV stations over the air, all 24 of them are digital, and 23 of them are in high definition.
How many TV channels did you say you can get over the airwaves for free in Budapest?
Anonymous (please pick another nick, many people use this, it is confusing).
Good description. This is a Kafka Hungaria, I will be using that one. At present, due to a shady deal with the government when broadcast licenses were given, (i.e. someone got paid, or the regulators were just really stupid) one can get RTLKlub and TV2 (which broadcast horrid American shows or copies of them, such as talkshows) and state run M1, which broadcasts the same stuff, but at a huge expense to the taxpayer. The two state run stations which broadcast a certain amount of quality, are available only on cable! So what the taxpayer pays for anyway, and what is quality television, is available only for a charge. I say quality, but the state run, formerly excellent, television station DunaTV started to broadcast the American show Moonlighting last year, so we are on a decline. This is sad, because DunaTV was founded to serve ethnic Hungarians outside of Hungary.
Are any of the 24 stations you receive worth anything? Last time I was in the US there wasn’t 5 minutes of television worth watching on any station, including PBS.
@Tünde: ‘…though numerous scientific studies prove this is not true…” Any specific references you can give? I’d be interested in anything related to consumer media consumption habits, particularly in relation to the media.
One of my legal run ins with Hungarians happened to me with someone who works in the media watchdog – on a completely unrelated matter. I would certainly agree on personal experience that something is rotten in the state (of) ORTT.
Easy solution: just get rid of broadcast TV entirely. If people want to watch teevee, they can get cable, the contet of which would go totally unregulated. Auction off the bandwidth that the tv stations were using for some other purpose. Meanwhile, Tünde, if people really learned to like what they are “fed” then the commercial stations that popped up in the 90s would have stuck to broadcasting the same stuff people had been fed for the previous decades, i.e. fine arts programs and documentaries on workers’ collectives in Mozambique. Instead, it turned out that what average Hungarians really want to watch is, well, “Moonlighting.” Oh and by the way, it is simply laughable that you would scoff at such force-feeding, because clearly the only solution you’d settle for is to be in charge of what everyone watches. GOD I HATE COMMUNISTS.
Erik: Yeah well the only thing I hate more than communists ruling what people watch and think are the globalist who do it. The kind of idiots that maintain that tabloid television, and press, and radio, are purely the result of “giving people what they want”. In your case it is really bad, because you seem to actually believe this.
@Tünde: I’ll try again, as I really would like to read any of the sources you claim exists.
You said about TV/media viewing habits that ‘…numerous scientific studies prove this [that people do not want American re-runs and soap-operas etc...] is not true…” Any specific references you can give?
I watch the media reasonably closely and haven’t seen any such reports or studies. Can you please provide the references to any of them. Books, too. Anything you have.
I’m not trying to catch you out. I just want to read more about what Hungarian media consumption habits are. I read pretty much anything I can get on this, so anything you appear to have access to would help.
Tünde, “Kafka Hungaria” here.
Whereas I usually agree by and large with your revolutionary contrarian position, what I am gathering from you that you are a rather disillusioned lady overall. About many, may things. And somebody (other than yourself) is always at fault, too.
Hungarian television is rubbish. And, of course, American television is also rubbish.
Like one of the bloggers here had kindly suggested, all there is left for you to watch therefore are the non-rubbish documentaries on workers’ collectives in Mozambique.
How is the weather in Mozambique this summer, BTW? Really hot, hmmm?
Vándorló: let me see, you wrote earlier, like Erik, that I want to dictate to people. In that case, not to eat fast food and drink soft drinks (truly, what a terrible communist I am), when in reality both institutions use huge amounts of psychology, money and research to manipulate the public, mainly the young, and the poor and uneducated to consume them, (I forgot to add to anon the research on criminal behavior and sugar), you laughed at saying there is a psychological profile of a corporate directors but you wish me to believe that you are actually interested in such studies on television. And looking at Politics.hu, you, yet again insult me without having a point. You are a piece of work.
Anonymous: I did ask a question, but naturally, you replied for saying I am at fault for all my complaints. Yes I admit it, I am at fault for bad television.
And of course there is no reason to be disillusioned about anything really. We are all healthy, financially well, and happy. Just like you in the US, where the economy is virual, highest rate of crime in the world, high rate of depression etc., etc. But keep smiling and watching that tv. You people really are brainwashed.
Bhutan rates are No.1 on the global happiness index. They have no television. According to Erik, they are deprived.
Why is it that no anglos can ever make a decent argument?
Tünde, so sorry, but youy are cruising for a loooooong-term stay at the Hungarian National Asylum on Huvosvolgyi ut…. Ooops, sorry, they closed that one out, right? Lucky break!
Okay, so you live in Bhutan and not Mozambique, but who gives a flying hoot, really?
Anonymous: Thank you for proving my last point.
@Tünde: Try to concentrate. All I asked for was references to the sources you claim exist. Can you please provide me with the information that you claim is the basis of your argument/beliefs. I have read plenty of media reports, research articles that discuss contrary points, so would appreciate any counter arguments that are out there.
Please don’t tell me you just made it all up again? To be honest. I don’t care, but if there is information, research or data of the kind and content you claim I would really like to know. So, where is this information, what are your sources?
Vándorló: “Please don’t tell me you just made it all up again?” I never make anything up, so stop your lying. And of all the people on this site, you know good and well I make every, needless as it turns out, attempt to prove my allegations. I even answer most of your stupid and baseless attacks, until they get tiring.
I had started a reply until I read your Politics.hu post this morning. So piss off, and try to find the stuff yourself.
You can start your goading now, I won’t be listening, and when the time comes that no one answers anything you write, you will know why.
@Tünde: You are shameless and a charlatan. You constantly refer to research that doesn’t exist. For example:
1. Genetics relating to drinking behaviour in Hungarians
2. Genetics relating to epigenetic behavioural differences between Hungarians and minority populations
3. Linguistic and philological research
4. Economic data on the viability of now defunct Hungarian brand names
5. Media consumption patterns and preferences for TV viewing
You are not the kind of person that would resist proving your point. Even when you knew nothing about linguistics you did your best to cling to the flimsiest of ideas.
You made it up and that makes you more and more ridiculous.
Just tell me of or cite some research or books. You said there was loads of it. I read this stuff all the time in Hungarian and English (and try my best in other languages).
I am not trying to make any point here, I just would like to read the research you claim exists.
@Tünde: Without any sarcasm at all, let me say that your point about Bhutan is very well placed. While these global happiness surveys have very obvious limitations, I absolutely acknowledge that people may be happier under a strongly authoritarian, or even totalitarian, system. I also think one can make a very strong argument that western consumer capitalism not only leaves people unfulfilled, but may in fact be leading such societies to commit mass suicide via plunging birth rates, etc. The problem is that people often seem to think you can pick and choose the best of all such systems, and that when it turns out you can’t it is because of some conspiracy. (Actually, what’s interesting is that the worst offenders in this area – the people who utterly refuse to recognize the tradeoffs – are American leftists, who truly believe you can have a system that is socialist and libertarian at the same time.) So again, if your vision of society is something more like Bhutan than the contemporary west that’s totally legitimate. It’s just not my cup of tea, and I expect not most other folks’ in these parts, either.
Vándorló: You are a liar, but your goading worked.
1. and 2. Ethnic Hungarians have a higher rate of alcoholism then non ethnic Hungarians, including Jews, Germans, Romans, Serbs and Slovaks. That stuff is on the net.
3. The linguistics thing was your constant misunderstanding of Visitor’s reference not to the origin of hello, but its use of it in telephone. As Visitor and I put a zillion sources for that, and you put OED, wiki, which proved our points, not your’s. You have reading comprehension.
4. Economic data on the viability of now defunct Hungarian brand names. WTF are you talking about?! I wrote a diatribe on Coke, you wrote I must want people to drink Sztár. You are an idiot. Sztár was a fucking COPY of the “western” softdrink. Get it?! A COPY! Like Trapper was a copy of Levi’s. THIS WAS THE REGIME’S TACTIC TO BRAINWASH THE PEOPLE TO THINK THIS WAS LIKE “THE WEST”, YOU TOTAL MORON!
Man you are the most stupid English Brit I have ever met. And while I am at it, you thought that my post on an English asking for an Irish Pub was because he wanted to drink. No, it was the idiocy of an Englishman going halfway across Europe for the weekend to another culture known for wine, and looking for an Irish Pub. Just like you and Erik do in coming here to impose your “culture”.
5. I said numerous studies. Find them yourself. Of course you think I refer to Hungarian studies, start with US and UK studies.
Now go away, you bring out the worst in me.
Erik: In my time in the States, it was obvious to me that people there are brainwashed to think that there are no networks, and no conspiracies, when in fact is in a number of lobbies which rule the government there. The financial bailout while the average American a perfect example to everyone over 5 years old.
Hungarians, and eastern Europeans in general, are more open to the idea of a conspiracy because we have had much experience with them, and we are more critical.
I can understand that the average American is dumb enough to say there are no conspiracies, but for anyone to have any experience with international banking systems like the World Bank and still say there is no agenda, is either really dumb or a sociopath.
And I am willing to understand the tradeoffs, no one ever debates them. Your kind of debate is typically American. It is either this or the Gulag. I am a communist for suggesting anything other than globalism (which is not capitalism).
I don’t think you read much.
@Tünde: Not one single citation?
1. Alcoholism: “That stuff is on the net.” Have you read Cr. Czeizel Endre’s ‘A Magyarság Genetikája’? Or anything related?
2. Minorties: As above, but referring to violent behaviour and crime you have yet to even state this much.
3. Etymology: “I put a zillion sources for that” You didn’t provide a single one. Not one. Neither did Visitor. Not one resource showed any link between Hungarian and English for the word ‘Hello’. The language reference book you initially cited, you later retracted as a source. You claimed the difference lay in that between British and American English when no such factor was/is important in this case. Try the American Heritage Dictionary or others.
4. Market forces/Economic: “THIS WAS THE REGIME’S TACTIC TO BRAINWASH THE PEOPLE TO THINK THIS WAS LIKE “THE WEST”, YOU TOTAL MORON!” Oh, ummm, ok, reach for the β-blockers and try to answer next time.
5. Media Consumption patterns: “Find them yourself.” That isn’t a response. I have told you I can’t find them.
Maybe your academic experience is more limited than I first believed (hardly possible, but…). Some pointers:
A. The internet is generally *not* an acceptable source for citations. For facts and research these should come from standard academic publish sources, trade journals, economic reports, government statistical agencies etc…
B. Still, in many cases where you are taking about opinion and reported speech of some person then the net is acceptable if cited.
“You claimed the difference lay in that between British and American English when no such factor was/is important in this case. Try the American Heritage Dictionary or others.” My god are you stupid. I really think you need to be placed in one of those classes Balogh Éva calls the retarded we used to reserve for the gypsies. Not that they were retarded, but you are.
The net is not a source?! You are an idiot. Entire statistic offices of countries and scientific studies published in Nature are available on the net.
I would stay and argue, but there is absolutely nothing I can learn from you, and as you have comprehension problems, there is nothing you can learn, full stop.
@Tünde: Here’s an idea – when you are in a long-running debate with someone, and your interlocutor concedes a point and then writes something wholly without personal invective, maybe the best response isn’t to call them names. And for the record, I don’t think you are out to send anyone to the gulag, or even to force people back into some kind of Bhutanese-style pre-industrial traditional society. Again, I just think you are just a person who doesn’t like the direction of the modern social market consumer society, which is *totally* legitimate. But I personally don’t see any alternatives that are on balance more attractive or workable. You are free to consider this an insult and provocation, but it is not meant as one.
Ladies and gents, this “debate” is getting a bit tedious, doesn’t it now?
Anyhow, I suggest to liven things up a little and try to make everyone happy here. Therefore, we shall have an online lottery drawing held this Saturday at 10:00 PM. Here are the prizes:
FIRST PRIZE: A “hot date” with Tünde.
SECOND PRIZE: 10 “hot dates” with Tünde.
THIRD PRIZE: You can move in with Tünde.
On, and I almost forgot our GRAND PRIZE: a donated TIME MACHINE to take disillusioned Tünde back to happier times. Preprogrammed to take its single passenger to 1 January 1,000,000 BC.
How about it, Ladies & Gents? Let’s hear it now!!!
@God – please let Godot, Fabian or HP win the first 3 prizes.
@Expat Hun – Tonda wait for Tunde!
Here’s a picture of Tunde:
http://tinyurl.com/m9kwpl
I take third prize any time.
Erik: “Here’s an idea – when you are in a long-running debate with someone, and your interlocutor concedes a point and then writes something wholly without personal invective, maybe the best response isn’t to call them names.”
1. “I absolutely acknowledge that people may be happier under a strongly authoritarian, or even totalitarian, system”
i.e. Bhutan’s people are happy because they live under a totalitarian system, not because they live in a gorgeous and clean environment, have no identity crisis, have no poverty, or television.
So my solution is totalitarianism (this is opposed to what we have now, which, according to you is not totalitarianism). You retracted it later, but as you earlier wrote “God I hate communists” and continually call me a communist, this means nothing.
2. and that when it turns out you can’t it is because of some conspiracy.
i.e. I believe in conspiracies. This is fine, because I do, but neolibcons use this argument to discredit people.
3. “It’s just not my cup of tea, and I expect not most other folks’ in these parts, either.
Well I kind of think that you really don’t know what people here, or in America, want. I admit that crap is popular, but I also think that it is manipulated. No one asked people if they wanted to watch Moonlighting on state television, but it is common television and radio tactic to slowly degrade a station. After a while, like in the US, no one will notice the difference.
@Tünde: You state: “No one asked people if they wanted to watch Moonlighting on state television”, but previously you had stated that: “‘this is what the people want’, even though numerous scientific studies prove this is not true”.
Which of these statements is true?
(Not specifically abut Moonlighting, as this is obviously used by way of example.)
Were the people asked, or weren’t they?
If I were being unkind I would claim you originally (possibly unknowingly) used a classic disinformation tactic, that has the following sentence structure:
Amplifying phrase + unfounded assertion.
The key here is the amplifying phrases which are there to add authority/pathos/pseudoscience to any argument. Examples would be: ‘As most people know…’ ‘It is well established that…’ ‘Numerous scientific studies have shown…’ ‘No-one disagrees that…’ ‘Only a fool would question the widely held opinion that…’
So which was it. Were the people asked or weren’t they? Where is the research you claim as the basis for your argument and opinion?
@Tünde: “No one asked people if they wanted to watch Moonlighting on state television…” Well, indirectly of course they are asking – it’s called ratings. And if they actually formally asked people what they wanted to watch, do you think the answer would be to your liking? You can dissemble and meander all you want, Tünde, but the bottom line is that this debate offers a perfect example of the difference between those with authoritarian personalities and those without. As far as I’m concerned, if people want to watch crap on the teevee, that’s their business, not mine. (Which is why I would get the state out of the teevee business alltogether.) If they want to eat healthy, tastefully-prepared food like me, I’m happy for them. But if they don’t, again, that’s their business. If they want to watch or worship god(s) or spirits, fine too, as long as they are not expecting me to join in or subsidize it. You, on the other hand, obviously want to run others’ lives and are enraged that you don’t have the ability to. End of story.
Erik,
Look at the “menu” Hungarians are offered, hardly anything edible, not to mention tasty.
So Gyozike makes money, so be it, but if that’s all you get, you don’t have much of a choice.
I’m not saying to replace crap with quality entertainment, only to give both a chance. Who knows, people may get the hang of it.
@Godot: Well, it seems to me that a sensibe compromise is for publicly-funded broadcasters to focus on “quality” programming, and for everyone not to worry about what commercial channels do. But in the long run, if you really want choice, the answer is to just dispose of the terrestrial broadcasting model in favor of Internet-based broadcasting, where you can always have many more options. If they so choose the state and foundatons, etc, can focus on subsidizing “quality”/educational content and just give it away, rather than spending all this time and money on infrastructure and overhead for the delivery of content. As an aside, I just finished watching the series “Rome,” which as I recall was a BBC/HBO co-production, and was just great.
Erik: There are entire research institutes devoted to the psychology used in television and radio. And ratings, like public opinion polls, are jokes. People do not have a choice without cable, and even with it it is limited. RTLKlub has a monopoly. Monopolies, are antitheses to choice.
Same with junk food. You obviously think that marketing is not manipulative. And you, as with anon, have no idea why physiological reasons fat, sugar and carbohydrates are so immediately effective.
But as useless as you think it is to argue with me, because I am “dogmatic”, it is more useless to argue with you, because, as I said, I don’t think you read much. It is clear that these sites to reenforce the small expat Tesco world you inhabit. I cannot understand, though, why people go to other countries just to impose the same, rather nasty, “culture” they come from. And you thinking that globalisation is not authoritarian is more than naive.
These sites are really tiresome, and depressing. And I am really sick of the stupid posters who are incapable of writing anything intelligent, just one line insults. Probably representative of the expats living here. So I will leave you to your world. You are winning anyway.
@Tünde: “There are entire research institutes devoted to the psychology used in television and radio.” As I’d previously stated that is the background I come from, cognitive psychology, how people, perceive, understand and process information.
The problem with humans in general is that there is typically an enormous discrepancy between what they say they would like and what they actually decide to consume on a moment to moment basis. Which is why I would like to hear more about the research on Hungarian consumers beyond the information I already have.
@Erik: Rome was great, but stay away from ‘The Tudors’ – it’s appalling.
@Stan: I even think the quality of the dubbing isn’t what it use to be. Old films have brillant voice overs. You can tell these are fantastic actors. The voice overs for films and programmes (when I watch at a friends), is almost universally crap. Why don’t they just subtitle, so it’s clear it’s foreign, helps to learn another language too. Then use any money saved for real, new drama, investigative documentaries etc..?
And a general question about the crappy new (month old) announcers on the 4/6 trams: who the hell thought paying those actors all that money for these roles was a great use of public money???? At least it is directing people to the theatres.
@Tünde: Don’t talk to me about insults. I (and others) have repeatedly tried to engage you in an even-handed way, and you invariably respond with ad hominem attacks. You repeatedly call Americans stupid and uneducated; never have I said anything like this about Hungarians. Meanwhile, as for my “world” is “winning,” here’s a clue: I and others from “my world” spend more time admiring other people and cultures than we do hating or knocking them down. I have been to something like 75 countries, and would be happy to spend more time with the people in any of these places. I am happy to adopt cuisines, customs and language from any culture if I think they are better than “my own,” or just good. Bottom line is that my “world” is winning because we spend more time focused on things and people we like or admire rather than things and people we hate. You should try it sometime – it’s really not so bad.
Erik, Americans are stupid and uneducated. That is not ad hominem, that is the truth. You have a whole school of comedy on this very topic. It is a type of comedy you use yourself. Anyway, that is what globalism did to them, and what it is doing to Hungarians and the rest of the world now.
And please do not say you engage in debate with me, particularly in an even handed way. As with IKEA debate, and this one, any global criticism remark I make it met with no argument from you other than me it being “sad”, “silly”, “hateful” “dogmatic” or “totalitarian”.
And to say that I knock down others’ cultures (globalisation is not a culture), instead of the truth, that I see cultures being destroyed every day from is really, really distorting everything I write and very dishonest.
@Tünde: Well, actually I’d have to agree that, compared to Hungarians, Americans may be slightly slow-witted and lacking in book-smarts. But that’s only because Hungarians have more Jewish blood.
Popular American tune:
“Don’t know much about history
Don’t know much biology
Don’t know much about a science book
Don’t know much about the french I took
Don’t know much about geography
Don’t know much trigonometry
Don’t know much about algebra
Don’t know what a slide rule is for”
But I do know one and one is two
And I know that if you love me too
What a wonderful world this would be
“Americans are stupid and uneducated.”
Of course. In fact, that is why the Hungarian insitutes of higher education are rated so much better globally than stupid American universities like Brown, Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, USC, Duke, UGA, Princeton, Yale, Harvard, MIT, etc, etc.
Actually, with people like Tünde on the loose and not in a permanent lock-up someplace safe (for us), no wonder that your average Hungarian of any age who finds himself/herself outside the borders of Hungary would be best served by immediately denying that he/she is from Hungary, and in fact has got anything to do with Hungary.
Admitting to that crime would just be too darn well embarassing. Just ask me if you don’t believe me.
@Tunde – re IKEA debate – you have yet to state any realistic solution you have for a Hungarian furniture manufacturer to compete.
I gave up waiting for an answer because I’m sure you don’t have any. As usual (as with Vandorlo’s 6 questions) you’d rather avoid giving any answers, but bring it up at a later time on some other issue claiming OTHERS avoided your points. What a liar you are!
UJ, pls be aware that Tünde’s solution for today’s multifaceted problems of the world is to retreat to the year 1,000,000 BC. Things were so much simpler then, hmmm!?
This crazy person attacks everyone with blazing guns — but refuses to answer any and all questions and comments adressed to her truthfully or even quasi-intelligently.
Must be a die-hard Socialist or Communist, unless she/he/it is really a Fascist, which is my best estimation, based on the evidence presented heretofore.